Millwall supremo appalled by council's deal with developer

© Alan Stanford
© Alan Stanford

MILLWALL chairman John Berylson says the "long-term future of the club" has been put at risk by Lewisham Council's deal with a property developer.

The Council have agreed to hand over three pieces of land around The Den, currently leased to the Lions, to Renewal, the company behind the 2,500-home Surrey Canal Project.

The car park, a space behind the stadium and the Lions Centre are all under threat.



Millwall have a long lease on the car park and the area behind the ground, while the Millwall Community Scheme has a shorter lease on the Lions Centre.

Renewal and the Council have exchanged contracts on the sale of the freehold of these sites.

The Lions claim the Council refused to consider their own plans for the land, which they say could provide the club with the opportunity to generate non-football revenue in the future.



The club's plans, which were presented to the Council last August, included a hotel, offices, sports and health facilities and flats.

However, the Council have pressed ahead with Renewal – and refused to disclose the terms of their agreement with the developer, making it difficult for Millwall to present a rival bid.

Berylson said in a statement: "I am appalled and bewildered by the behaviour of the council towards Millwall Football Club, our fans and our Community Scheme.

"Millwall has always been a club rooted in its community.

"It launched and supported the Millwall Community Scheme Trust almost 30 years ago which has helped thousands of young people over the years and the Club was proud to be at the forefront of the Save Lewisham A&E campaign.

"Lewisham Council's decision to sell the freehold of these three areas of land adjoining our stadium – including the Lions Centre and our car park – to developers without considering our own plans makes us feel isolated, unsupported by our local authority and angry.

"If these land sales go through, they will put the long-term future of the Club at risk because non-football assets that we hold in our leases will be surrendered to a developer.

"We have the long-term interests of the Club and the community in mind. Renewal does not. Lewisham Council must be urged to think again."

The Council have agreed to sell three pieces of land around The Den, highlighted in yellow, to Renewal.
The Council have agreed to sell three pieces of land around The Den, highlighted in yellow, to Renewal.

A spokesman for the Council said: "The land leased to Millwall and the Millwall Community Scheme is owned by the Council and we have been in discussion with them for many years.

"We have undertaken to safeguard their futures on many occasions and we continue to meet and discuss issues of concern with them.

"We remain absolutely committed to ensuring that the comprehensive regeneration of the Surrey Canal site takes into account the long-term future of the football club including any future requirement for stadium  expansion, as well as infrastructure.

"We have also undertaken to ensure that the Millwall Community Scheme will remain close to the club and continue to be able to serve the communities of Lewisham and Southwark.

"The scheme will mean a greatly improved setting for the club and will breathe new life and vitality into this part of central London.

"The freehold sale safeguards the future of the club."

Alex Aldridge

(@accordingtoaldo)

151 thoughts on “Millwall supremo appalled by council's deal with developer

  • February 3, 2014 at 15:02
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    As I suspected, the danger did not lie within our club but with the developers and the Council. I am interested to see what we can do about this and if any challenges can be mounted.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:08
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    We need to get together and start a protest up. Have we got a LEADER on here who can show us the way forward? .

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:09
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    What hope for our beautiful club then.......... Getting screwed inside (by officials) getting screwed outside by the council (govenment)

    COYL!!!!!!

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:10
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    I've read the whole article and not too sure what is wrong about it, unless I'm mistaken??

    Yes the developer has also bought our car park and community centre, but the developer is allowing our community scheme to be held in the brand new regional sports centre being built a stones throw away.

    Also the developer is putting plans together to fill in the corners of the den, add new cladding to the outside so it looks brand new!

    By the look of it, the only annoyance to Directors and players will be parking outside.... but if these extra houses/flats(or apartments depending where you come from) bring more people into the ground on a matchday wheres the problem as it means extra money for the club and a bigger local support!

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    • February 3, 2014 at 15:12
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      @Bradders: If what you say is correct mate then I may have to eat my words with regards to my last post........

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    • February 3, 2014 at 15:18
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      @Bradders: The new flats/apartments will be for yuppies, They will have no interest in Millwall or championship football for that matter.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 15:32
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        @Eightieswall: If it is an extra couple of hundred through the gates and brings extra money for the club, is that not a good thing??

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        • February 3, 2014 at 15:45
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          @Bradders: Yes it is a good thing but they wont come to us. The area has changed a lot in the last few years and Bermondsey and Rotherhithe is full of yuppies but you dont see our gates increasing. I would imagine if they do move to the area we will see plenty of chelsea,arsenal and man utd shirts and toffs in rugger shirts. Sadly i believe Millwall and championship football wiil not appeal to these people.

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          • February 3, 2014 at 16:06
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            @Eightieswall: Unfortunately we don't know this for fact, it's all hearsay until it actually happens!

            Only a small part of Bermondsey has improved but these are houses and apartments outside the stadium, not a bus or train ride or a long walk away.... literally outside.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 15:42
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        @Eightieswall: They said that about the development down Spa Road and by St James Church but their all full of the people from the Haygate nowadays!!

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        • February 3, 2014 at 15:59
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          @TheBermondseyBomber: A large percentage of residents from the Heygate have been "relocated" outside london. A new one bedroom on the Heygate will set you back nearly 400 grand. The people who owned flats for more than 20 years where given 90k. This new development is not for working class londoners like us.

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          • February 3, 2014 at 16:40
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            @Eightieswall: That may be the case but I had plenty of these residents as my neighbours on Spa Road so I know for sure they were put in these new stylish apartments - I was silly enough to live in one at first and was lead to believe they were for the more "upper class" resident! Trust me they aint!!!

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        • February 3, 2014 at 20:44
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          @TheBermondseyBomber: I worked on most of the developments on the spa road development over the last seven years spending over 2 years on marine street next to the tower block lupin .the majority and I mean majority are from overseas full stop.cant see hoards of somalians etc waiting at the turnstiles.todays market is foe renting not buying,and the majority of appartments and houses sold today goto oversea owners.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 15:29
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      @Bradders: see my comments below - the problem is ultimately it leaves us with no power and that is always the bottom line - look what Coventry council have done to their team

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      • February 3, 2014 at 15:39
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        @timchimes: I think that is a shocking example.... Coventry's ground is owned by Ricoh and they upped their rent, that isn't gonna happen in our case!

        Still can't see an issue here, even after reading the development plans apart from the parking situation!!

        Of course the latest statement says a lot about the developer helping Millwall out and if there is some evidence in the contract of what has been said in this article.... whats the problem?

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        • February 3, 2014 at 15:47
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          @Bradders: you will be proved so wrong I'm afraid - this will take years to play out - the development will take ages but after it is done where does that leave us - with no means to generate any money or expand in any way - they will fix up the stadium for the short term - The point I make about Ricoh is that it is the council allowing corporations to determine what gets built and on what terms - the bottom line is Coventry don't play there any more- that's all you need to know

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          • February 3, 2014 at 16:01
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            @timchimes: I'm keen to understand why you actually mean by generating money and expand?? If you read that article is guarantees or safety by extending the lease of the New Den.... it is also about expanding our stadium by filling in the corners and sprucing it up with the cladding... what more do you want?? We only have a maximum of 12,000 at the Den anyway so wont ever need a 50,000 seater stadium by the look of it and if we did we could build one somewhere else!

            We still generate money from the community scheme as we will be based in the sports centre over the road and the parking is the only thing, whereas we should (in theory) have more people through the gates with more homes around the ground!

            Please tell me what I'm missing here????

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    • February 3, 2014 at 15:32
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      @Bradders: that's exactly how i read it, however it also states that the club had ideas of its own for that land to generate non football revenue. Ie JB had ideas for a bit if extra cash it looks to me that the rusk to the club is that JB will leave if he cannot generate revenue from other sources. The fact that there is no communication between JB and the council means he is going to have to do his own risk assessment. We need talks to open up between all parties and hope that someone can convince JB that thus regeneration is beneficial to him and the club.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 16:03
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        @smudge: Smudge, when Berylson 1st bought the club I remember he was keen to build on that land to make extra money for himself, which is why over the years we have been targeted for a buyout because there is money to be made around the ground with development.... it's just because Berylson can't do this himself he's kicking up a fuss.

        As I keep saying, unless I'm missing a major point I can't see the issue?

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        • February 3, 2014 at 16:31
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          @Bradders: you are right about berlyson but would have to do the regen partly through us and so we have some clout over time - once this is agreed we will live off some scraps you mention above

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        • February 6, 2014 at 18:52
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          @Bradders:

          Think JB has every right to kick off, he's put alot of dough into our club, think he deserves something back, not as if he aint gonna make sure we're alright is it, think this will drag on for quite some time, we have gotta back the club, eachother and the next generation to the hilt, we need to stay up first and formost

          COME ON YOU LIONS

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    • February 3, 2014 at 16:21
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      @Bradders: Think not as a Millwall Supporter but as someone looking to buy a house or flat, would you really want to buy one 10 yards from a football ground and Millwall at that. It only makes sense as a development if the ground also makes way.

      Can you imagan what it would be like on a match day or worse a midweek game, any living there would be onto the leftie council all the time, bleeting about how much council tax they pay and how they feel threatned in there own home and how its blighting there home.

      This does have the potenital to be very serious for us the fans and it may force JB hand to quit while he can still get his money out, and there wont be anyone out there who will help or be upset by the great Walls demise if we let it happen.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 19:36
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        Interesting one this is and I can see both sides of the argument.

        Millwall football club has had the lease on this land for twenty years and with the exception of the commendable lions centre, the only other strand of commercial income I have seen is the space being used as a coach park.

        As a business, millwall have done nothing, so no good bleating now that the council have acted.

        With the exception of the car park, which let's face it, I doubt any of the posters on this site use on match days anyway, the other two areas don't really affect us as a club. Do they? Especially, if as quoted above, the club are getting a new sports location very close by.

        It may be that people moved into those areas may join us on match days, although they will probably not be our demographic. Although I think barn lion has stated that it may have long term issues, which I agree may be a more serious problem.

        The one really baffling thing to me is that in an era where most local authorities are sanctioning new grounds away from domestic property, lewisham council in their wisdom are sanctioning the building of domestic property in what can only be described as an industrial area. This seems like Victorian planning at best.

        The fact that the developers will tart up the ground and fill in the corners with more empty seats maybe a benefit. At least the west lower would have a reduction of wind thus making it a warmer with luck.

        Furthermore, no horrible smell from the rubbish dump that has suddenly appeared at the back if the CBL.

        I'm with Bradders I guess. Unless like he I have missed the whole point.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 19:46
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        @Bradders:@Barnlion: Spot on mate......some people being sucked in by a lick of paint for the stadium and the developers and what they read.Once they,the developers, get a foot in money will talk.

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        • February 3, 2014 at 19:47
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          @shoot ffs: My comment was directed to Barnlion not Bradders

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        • February 4, 2014 at 08:17
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          @shoot ffs: Mate I get that, but as you have said it will walk, this is more important than what is happening on the pitch as I see it, as we all know no one likes us, so who is going to care if we end up starting again in the southern league F****** no one except us, this is one match we really need to win and quickly" rats and ships come to mind."

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    • February 4, 2014 at 13:04
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      @Bradders: these extra homes will not have a single millwall shirt in sight .chelsea or arsenal
      no company in their right mind are gonna help us out

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:11
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    Bad news. First off, we need the club to give us some info on who we should be writing to to voice our disapproval.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 21:05
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      @tomahawk: Lewisham residents have to contact their councilors

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:13
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    looking those plans we will be left with no car parking space, where are people like players, club officials, TV crews, photographers and the guests of the chairman etc going to park.
    "its OK fella's you can leave your car in the estate next door, will be totally safe"

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    • February 3, 2014 at 15:21
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      @Mr_London:
      forgot to mention the disabled, sponsors, ambulances and police vehicles all currently use those spaces,
      we will effectively have a ground with an alleyway all the way round.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 15:26
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      @Mr_London:

      http://www.renewalgroup.co.uk/

      look at their website and the surrey canal link - this is the council caving into business interests - no mention of us in their glossy publicity - there will be directors and consultants making a fortune out of this with the support of council tax payers of Lewisham - it is corporate, top to bottom, dressed up as in the interest of local people - Berylson wanted to do this for us (and himself) - If this goes ahead it gives us no power whatsoever - we have no stake in this - why couldn't we be in partnership with this company if it is interested in the 'community', because they aren't. First and foremost they are interested in making money.

      It makes me sick the way they patronise us by telling us what a good location it is ; only 4 mins to London Bridge - I bet none of the people at the top of Renewal live there currently. Don't fall for this.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 16:48
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        @timchimes: Where are all these table tennis players moving from to play in a purpose built arean in SE16 also the scba divers in there purpose built deep water pool, hadley the mass spot of the people, likewise the 1200 capacity mixed church and offices ??

        A load of old tosh and yuppie speak from the developers.

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        • February 3, 2014 at 21:08
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          @Barnlion: you are wrong - there are so many people who would want to live there - they would sell out in no time to landlords - buy to let

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:24
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    And so it begins.
    Make the most of watching Millwall play in SE London.
    Take a good look at those plans as mentioned above. It will not be workable and hey ho the best and only solution will be to move.
    B*******. B*******.B*******.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:32
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    No power and limited opportunities to have non-football revenue generation activities for the club. Our gates will never pay our bills so we need other revenue streams if we are to survive long term.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 15:41
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      @glyngo: The Community Scheme will be a part of the new regional sports centre which is being built, not sure what revenue we get from having a large car park.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 16:36
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        @Bradders: no revenue Bradders but the opportunity for berylson to be involved - once it is gone its gone - it will never come back to us -

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        • February 3, 2014 at 19:39
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          Well what you've never had...

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:33
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    If we have to move, so be it. As long as it is reasonably near, that's OK with me (but then I live in Woolwich so it's already a journey). I have never liked the new Den as a stadium and it wouldn't be a disaster if we had to build something more attractive elsewhere. There's plenty of room in the docklands for a stadium. Given as hardly any of our support comes from the immediate vicinity of the ground I can't see a problem with a move if the developers paid for it.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 16:01
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      @junkmale: well if the developers paid for it I can't say I would be devastated to move from south bermondsey.

      Have to be in South London of course, anything along the MK Dons route would be f****** awful.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 16:53
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        @MFC Lion: listen - this is a possibility - if we move, how much do we get for the ground? how much is land elsewhere in London? who builds the new ground?

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        • February 3, 2014 at 18:26
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          @timchimes: are there any football stadium sized areas of land going spare in south East London?

          Have to imagine no, even if they pay us for our current plot we would need somewhere to go and I can't imagine developers haven't already snapped up every other bit of land going in London let alone south east area.

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          • February 3, 2014 at 19:41
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            @MFC Lion: but our current plot is not owned by Millwall. As far as I know it was taken on a 99 year lease. So 79 to go until we are forced out. That should see most of us out I reckon.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:34
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    No one f****** likes us

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:37
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    We started on the isle of dogs..moved to new cross then to senagal fields screw lewisiham..& lets move to a bigger & better ground

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  • February 3, 2014 at 15:37
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    Think you're all getting carried away!!

    A Renewal Spokeman said:

    “The freehold sale safeguards the future of the club as a new lease will be granted for the club at the New Den protecting all rights of access and operation.

    “It is in Renewal’s interest that Millwall flourish in a regenerated area, as demonstrated by the significant benefits for the club within the outline planning consent including recladding the stadium, increasing the capacity and providing new bars and restaurants for fans.

    “As the loss-making club cannot credibly deliver any re-development Renewal will deliver the full scheme, with commencement on phase one at the end of 2014.”

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    • February 3, 2014 at 15:44
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      @TheBermondseyBomber: I agree, BB. The only difference from the club's scheme is the loss of the car parking, which isn't the end of the world.
      This is only a disappointment for Berylson and his business associates, who was planning to make a lot of money out of the development. I wonder if this means he will now be more open to selling the club?

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      • February 3, 2014 at 16:07
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        @junkmale: that's how I see it, JB angry as it's financially bad for him.

        As access to the stadium and safety for evacuation in an emergency would still apply its not a case of surrounding the ground with buildings..... I hope.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 15:44
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      @TheBermondseyBomber: This is my thoughts as well, not sure if I have completely missed something here??

      Unless Mr Berylson wants to spell it out in more details! I always thought he had an interest in buying land around the Den from the council and building homes thereto make a profit on it, which is why we were always linked with a buyout.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 16:45
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        @Bradders: Well yeah - He's been at the club how long? and could have made an offer to the council at any time - he's delayed and chose not to.... someone else now has - snooze ya lose Jonny B!

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    • February 3, 2014 at 16:07
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      @TheBermondseyBomber: so naïve - new bars and restaurants that someone else will make all the profit on

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      • February 3, 2014 at 16:43
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        @timchimes: Who's naive? who's talking about profit?! I'm on about the future of our club not the shareholders pockets!

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        • February 3, 2014 at 16:55
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          @TheBermondseyBomber: we don't necessarily have a future is JB walks - unless you want to stump up the cash

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          • February 3, 2014 at 17:05
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            @timchimes: And how do you work that one out? 1. if JB walks due to losing our car parking then that shows his true colours and intentions! 2. even if he does there will be potential investors/buyers for a club in the championship (provided we stay up) and in the middel of London!

            He's had 4 years to make the council an offer for this land and hasnt bothered

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      • February 3, 2014 at 17:45
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        @timchimes: can we use the bars beer got to be better than ours

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        • February 3, 2014 at 19:44
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          @Jim28: every cloud has a silver lining....

          Funnily enough, apart from match days, I really couldn't see any bar or restaurant flourishing in that part of town.

          If they could, then all of the old pubs would still be there.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 16:02
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    I SMELL A RAT! Who would want to develop land thats right on top of the most hated and feared club in the land??? I think we all know that the council and the developers would like us to move on, HOWEVER if thats the case either we want a viable alternative thats best for millwall and its fans or they can both F#*k off......

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    • February 3, 2014 at 16:06
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      @the verminhater: absolutely - there is nothing in this for us - as I said above if there was why not let us form a partnership

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  • February 3, 2014 at 16:04
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    Berylson wanted to do this - that way he could justify forking out millions on us - now what - why should he stay - 'long term interest in doubt', which means I'll be going - who will come in for us then with minimal potential assets. These plans are the start, the longer aim is to buy the ground - they will just bide their time

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    • February 3, 2014 at 19:46
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      @timchimes: well they are gonna have to wait another 79 years. That's when our current lease runs out, unless Reginald burr lied... Now who would have thought!

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  • February 3, 2014 at 16:05
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    Never trust developers, they have only one consideration in mind and that is PROFITS..sod all else. We must preserve the working class heritage of our club. Why can't the council build houses for rent? For local families and those who are currently being ripped off by private landords., Accomodation for students or nurses etc? Beware of the people that were trying to buy the club earlier. Something is going on behind the scenes.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 16:21
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      @Peckhamlad: they say they plan 50% social housing, but we know what that means these days - Despite what ever gets said or done originally property always ends up in the hands of the richest people - the best council house stock is nearly all privately owned now and they rent it back to us, as you say Peckham. Corporation won't stop till they own or have leases on every available piece of land, be that Tescos or Renewal. It is not in out interest. councillors take short term decisions to create job to show how effective they are and get re-elected , in the long tem they don't have to worry. Like MPs - take Blair MP for Sedgefield - I bet he has never set foot in Sedgefield since, couldn't give a t*** about ordinary people. DO NOT GET BOUGHT OFF WITH SHORT TERM PROMISES

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  • February 3, 2014 at 16:54
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    something has gone wrong here...during Rabbit time? The long term plan was ALWAYS for Millwall to make money our of re-development. This has re-location written all over it sponsored by the Developer!!

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    • February 3, 2014 at 17:00
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      @drifter: I totally agree. Part of the development area is the car park (outside the away end). Cant imagine the old bill being to happy with that,having coaches being parked somewhere else and walking away fans to the ground! I fear something bigger and more sinister at work....

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  • February 3, 2014 at 17:08
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    I heard a rumour, and I emphasise rumour, that redevlopment plans for the area didn't include a ground and that we were looking to relocate further out into SE London as thats where most of our fan base live. I do think that JB will now be moving on in the not too distant future, that could put all medium term plans with Holloway and Berylson in doubt. I see rocky years ahead, regardless of what Renewal say.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 17:14
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    The whole thing stinks! CANT SEE JB HANGING ABOUT NOW,GONE BY THE END OF THE SEASON. GOD I HOPE IM WRONG.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 17:27
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    For Attention Of, TBB at 17.05 - see the two comments above - they think like me - do you think JB will keep ploughing in money indefinitely like Abrahmovic at Chelsea - whether we recruit another investor is anyone's guess - there are lots of dodgy ones who end up ruining clubs - Rangers Portsmouth etc - I ma trying to be realistic - don't expect any favours from this consortium - ultimately they don't care about us - they can say what they like at this stage , unless we have firm obligations in law , we will get done over - that's what we have to fight for

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  • February 3, 2014 at 17:39
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    Seen pictures of the area & none of them hav a football ground in them. www.surrey docks . Com

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    • February 3, 2014 at 20:29
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      @block 28: to be fair the ground does appear to still be there. Well in the maps anyway. Hardly gonna sell any flats with a great big grey football ground in there pictures are they.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 21:05
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        @bonnie1272: Leyton orient have flats at every corner of the ground over looking the pitch! All sold

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        • February 3, 2014 at 22:57
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          @millwall-1988: do the windows face into the ground?

          If so, charge the residents for a season ticket.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 17:44
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    Sorry that should read www surrey canal.com

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  • February 3, 2014 at 18:31
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    To add to those comments about whether a housing project will add to Millwall's support: I was born and raised in SE London, I am degree-level educated but incoming yuppies priced me out of London and took what opportunities existed for me. My Millwall support, whilst whole-hearted, is now remote in France as is the next generation of Millwall support from my next generation. This has a small impact on the club. I am sure people moving in will give nothing for the club, and even take something away....

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  • February 3, 2014 at 18:34
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    I'd be gutted if we had to move , ive become fond of the stinking skips and thats not a punk band .

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  • February 3, 2014 at 18:56
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    It all seems a bit odd. Millwall's own plans (See official site for links) included developments on the site of the current car park as well as the site of the Lions Centre (which was to be moved elsewhere).

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    • February 3, 2014 at 19:21
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      @junkmale:
      That's my view as well.
      It sounds to me like if they force JB out, no one else will take this club on if there is no opportunity to make any money out of the club.
      That makes it easier for these 2 Bob's to take the club as well.
      I personally think it's time to step up and back our chairman.
      No doubt other people will have their own opinions but that's mine

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    • February 3, 2014 at 20:46
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      @junkmale: Sorry JM I did not realise you has already mentioned the plans are on the site.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 18:58
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    I think they should give us the Olympic stadium that would p*** the vermin off.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 19:23
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    The biggest negative here is that JB is p*ssed off and this deal might put him off staying with us for as long as he originally intended. I seriously hope not as we all know how much time and money he's pumped into our club. I don't think relocation is on the cards for many years to come, as the plans that renewal have include further development to the den. However, if we went down a couple of leagues (god forbid) and more people stopped going to games- we would be vulnerable... Money makes the world go round... The best thing we can all do in the short term is carry on going down the den and backing our lads to stay in the championship. COYL!!..... p.s. if we do get f**ked over, I'll be getting the torches and sharpened pitch forks ready... AND WE"LL BURN EM ALL!!!!!!!!!!

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    • February 3, 2014 at 19:32
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      @Luke ColdBlow10:
      I'm more inclined to go for hung, drawn and quartered!
      COYL BACK JB MILLLLL

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  • February 3, 2014 at 19:40
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    Hang on a f****** second, West Ham get a brand new state of the art built Olympic stadium with great transport links paid for by my tax, and we don't get to keep/develop our f****** car park.

    Sometimes supporting this club is truly bloody tiresome. I might just start supporting a family club like Charlton, no wait I would rather spend a night with Susan Boyle.

    No one likes us, we don't care. Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

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    • February 4, 2014 at 11:48
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      @dragonflymfc: West Ham are simply anchor tenants at the Olympic Stadium they never own it outright. I think they have to pay something like a million a year just in renting the place. However when they do not play at the stadium there is some clause that other corporate parties/events/interests can take place fully at the stadium including another team playing the there - this according to Barry Hearn as he still fancies Orient playing there and at this rate both Spam & Orient will be equals in the same league next season!... Be thankful we haven't got a board that want us to go over and play in that bowl of soup. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/leyton-orient-could-rent-olympic-stadium--and-theres-nothing-west-ham-can-do-about-it-claims-barry-hearn-9015480.html

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  • February 3, 2014 at 19:41
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    I posted the following comment on another regen post (https://www.newsatden.co.uk/7868-gonticas-regeneration-will-not-affect-millwall-for-years.html) over a year ago. Think it pretty much still applies:

    Looking at the bigger picture, once construction is complete and the new Overground station is opened, the value of the land on which The Den currently sits will increase significantly. Remember that we only lease that land from Lewisham Council. It is far from inconceivable that its value will reach a point at which it becomes worthwhile to the Council - in partnership with one of its favoured developers - to make the club an offer it can't refuse. Also, will the City workers (or, more likely, buy-to-let investors) that Renewal/Lewisham are hoping to attract to the area want Millwall on their door step, blocking access every other Saturday afternoon and, more significantly, holding down the resale value of their new flat?

    All over the country, `regeneration' projects have been sold on the basis of improving the lives of existing residents. But the reality is almost always that those same local people and institutions are driven out to make way for wealthier, more commercially desirable types. Positively-worded press releases from the developers are worthless. As a supporter, I am worried that there is nothing to stop our club being swept out of the area on this tide of gentrification.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 20:02
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      @stanley: like I've said every cloud....

      The new den becomes either the scuba centre, or dare I say it The Renewal Den.

      When we moved from the old den there was all this talk. Whether you like it or not, we have a better stadium with better facilities. Anyone remember p****** against a wall at the back if the north terrace and wading through it just to get there.

      Onwards and upwards, millwall will go from strength to strength, and if I'm wrong I will probably be in my box anyway!

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  • February 3, 2014 at 20:10
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    Long way to go folks, Lewisham would have to demonstrate to any court and HMG that the process was open transparent and sought best value for the taxpayer.

    This seems on the surface not to be so.

    Does anyone know if former Lewisham Cllr Dave Sullivan is involved in any capacity?

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  • February 3, 2014 at 20:35
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    We have posted our plans for regeneration on our official site, for me it all seems a bit too childish and petty to play all this out in public? And it almost feels a bit contrived for some reason.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 20:36
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    Have we all been misled again I thought we owned or had bought up all this land around the ground which was being developed on and I thought this whole project was being run by millwall to safe guard the clubs future is that not the real reason Berylson brought the club with the view to generating extra income for the club with the rents & sales of the property
    Was that why Lacey & co wanted to screw him and the club over what on earth is going on??

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    • February 3, 2014 at 20:58
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      @bazthelion078:
      There is no such thing as a free lunch!
      Obviously JB 's and Millwall plcs' plans have gone a bit Pete Tong but better the devil you know than the devil you don't?
      By the looks of it this has been simmering in the background for years and has cone to a head now.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 20:49
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    This is not an ideal situation long term. Clearly Lewisham council have decided to raise revenue for their coffers, pure and simple. Business is business as I’m sure JB will appreciate as they saw the pound signs and went for it. JB is understandably upset because he wanted a slice of the pie, why wouldn’t he? Although I do believe that JBs intentions are more honourable than Lewisham councils’.
    I agree with other posts on here that it will have little impact on attendances (+5% at most) and it will become even more difficult to park up. As I mentioned earlier, long term this scenario will become problematic and folk living around the ground will get cheesed off and b**** and moan to the council about the fans, chanting, swearing, litter etc….. Eventually Millwall will probably relocate when ‘Renewal’ make an offer the club can’t refuse. I cannot see the developer making huge concessions to appease our beloved football club and will do as they see fit for the good of their shareholders and/or owners.
    Hope I’m bloody wrong though?! COYL

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  • February 3, 2014 at 20:52
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    Can the Freedom of Information Act be used to force the Council to reveal the detail of the bid by Renewal?

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  • February 3, 2014 at 21:02
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    personally if we had to move anywhere ,I would settle for a brand new stadium in run down shabby southwark park,the pitches are sodden.the astro turf neglected for years the park reminds me of Senegal fields before developement,give the park new life,any thoughts back?

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    • February 3, 2014 at 21:23
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      @millwallbuilder: Honestly is relocating really a possibility? Where would we go? Who would fund it? What capacity stadium would suffice? 10,000 - 13,000 - 17,000 max for our needs? I love our club but at the same time I realise the facts, in 129 years of existence we have spent 2 seasons in the top/premier division of our land!!! We currently have a ground that exceeds our needs, we run at a loss, we have a stigma that I doubt will ever leave us and to top it all off we stand a good chance of being in the relegation zone Saturday evening.

      The only thing worth investing in with us is the real estate, that's what JB obviously did and he is now sore it could go the other way. Scary when you think about it.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 21:22
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    I'm afraid this will make us a less attractive proposition to JB and any future 'well intended' investor. It may well attract the wrong kind of investor if they could strike a deal with the council over ownership of the stadium or more to the point, the land it stands on.

    I mean this as no slight to JB, who for my money is the best chairman we've ever had, nor do I doubt his love for Millwall but I'm sure that the prospect of re-generating and developing the land around Millwall was one of it's initial attractions. I also can't believe a business man such as our chairman has not submitted his own plans.

    Yet again Lewisham Council would appear to have not had our best interests at heart.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 23:04
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      @Adsy77777: I agree Adsy, but then why would a savvy businessman not buy up the land in advance, assuming it was available.

      If you have a long term plan to regenerate the area around your own home, surely you would buy the land as and when it becomes available.

      Money, I don't think would have been an issue.

      However, I can see issues if this was the main reason for the initial purchase of our club.

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      • February 3, 2014 at 23:25
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        @bonnie1272: It might not have been available to us, I don't know. Perhaps we don't fit into Lewisham's plans.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 21:44
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    Read the book 'The likes of us', the old predominantly white working class don't tick anyone's box and that includes Lewisham.

    So Lewisham dwellers if a councillor knocks on your door on their four yearly concern for your welfare! say this to them: My vote is conditional on your opposition to the plans.

    I wonder what Steve Bullock the elected mayor has to say?

    Interesting times and very early days as those who remember the ASDA super den will recall.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 21:59
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    Just had a look on www.surreycanal.com which block 28 kindly posted, at the top of the home page is a slide of about 6 or so pics and one c k early shows the den surrounded by the proposed development.
    Has anyone given a minute's thought that perhaps JB is genuinely p***** off like the rest of us ?
    I have no idea what gets discussed at boardroom level as the fan on the board tells us f*** all, but I feel JB clearly has our interests at heart. I first thought, f*** me, here we go afc lions ground sharing at welling united, but that's to be expected but I believe JB has had similar thoughts.
    Whose to say lewisham never promised millwall fc first dibs ? If so I'd be fuming. Cant believe lewisham have done this, in the late 80s early 90s they used us at every given opportunity and even had their name stamped on our shirts for a couple yrs, every good the club done lewisham became the focus and now they want to cash in on us and make a mockery of us. wouldn't it be ironic if it were them to put the final nail in our coffin.
    this news has been hovering around us for a good couple yrs now and by the end of the yr it'll become very real. I expect a lot more to become public knowledge and when it does I for one will do all I can to make sure everything gets done to protect our club.
    But if we (fans) are to have an honest say in any of this then we need to cut out the s***, the behaviour the past couple yrs has been disgusting, we've got away with murder tbh. It now makes staying in the championship all the more important, and if anyone thought that we havent much of a part to play then please think again.
    Wether or not JB stays I personally couldn't care less, I was here before him and probably be here after him, it's millwall I care about and will give my all to make sure we come out on top.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 22:06
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    All I know is Alex aka Aldo who runs this site said it's bad news, and when it comes to millwall I trust him on 99.9% of things he has to say, I am hoping he is wrong but I doubt it!!

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  • February 3, 2014 at 22:32
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    The main question I think we should be asking ourselves is who would you trust more to have Millwall's interests at heart, Berylson; who granted will make a tidy sum from any development, but appears to genuinely love this club, like all of us on here, or some corporate nobody with the sole purpose of making as much profit as possible for their investors regardless of any casualties that may occur.
    We all have complained in recent years due to lack of investment, but this would be a real opportunity to grow the club's revenue away from football and give our club some much needed extra resource to fulfill Ollie's (and my) dream of being the next great footballing team.
    I for one will be backing JB's and the club's plans all the way.

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    • February 3, 2014 at 22:41
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      @Elmeanio: I'm with you on this one mate, also, if there is any money to be made from the regeneration, who would we rather benefit, our generous benefactor who as you say has a genuine affection for our club and would plough at least some of the revenue back into the club, or some corporate developers who couldn't give a t*** what happens to us?

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      • February 3, 2014 at 23:19
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        @Adsy77777:
        an idea - get the 50,0000 that went to Wembley to donate £1000 each and we have £50 million - good for a start - i'll go first before you ask

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        • February 3, 2014 at 23:22
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          @timchimes: Can you put mine in mate and I'll give it back on payday.

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  • February 3, 2014 at 23:30
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    Looking at the video, all the buggers living in the tower blocks can watch for free!!
    https://www.newsatden.co.uk/4299-video-millwall-set-for-facelift-as-part-of-1billion-regeneration.html

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  • February 4, 2014 at 06:46
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    What, no Mosque ???

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    • February 4, 2014 at 09:18
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      @frank: actually I've just watched the video and surprise surprise there is a mosque, what a joke!! Well good luck to them because with that at arms length and 10,000 angry millwall supporters I'm sure it won't last 5 minutes

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    • February 4, 2014 at 11:54
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      @frank: as long as we dont bite the bait.
      Which we're obviously expected to do.

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  • February 4, 2014 at 09:15
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    Time for a campaign. Secure the Future of the Den.

    Get the Lewisham Hospital campaigners on side, Bullock, GLA, local M.P.s etc. Etc.

    Put up candidates in theforthcoming elections.

    I know politicians, they react to one thing only PRESSURE.

    Let's smoke 'em out!

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  • February 4, 2014 at 09:22
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    IS THERE ANY TRUTH THAT MILLWALL FC MAY BE MOVING TOWARDS DARTFORD AREA ?
    [ WITH ALL THIS RE - BUILDING WORK PROPOSED IN THE CAR PARK AND SURROUNDING
    AREA ].
    CAUSE I WILL HAVE TO SEND SUE OVER THAT WAY , WHEN WE GET BACK FROM BURNLEY,
    TO LOOK OVER A FEW HOUSES THAT AREA !!!!
    [ OKAY FOR MY BROTHER, KEVIN, LEAH, JAMIE AND INDIA......THEY LIVE THAT WAY ]
    " NO ON LIKES US , WE DON'T CARE "
    STORMIN' NORMAN

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    • February 4, 2014 at 11:58
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      @bermlion: got to make it quick berm, a lot of redevelopment going on and theres a lot of nice pockets in and around dartford. Also plenty of space to build a new stadium which if thats to happen then hopefully we'll own it rather than lease it.

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      • February 4, 2014 at 13:00
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        @lukesmithmfc:
        THANK YOU Lukesmithmfc............
        THATS MAD IT A BIT CLEARER TO ME............
        " NO ONE LIKES US, WE DON'T CARE "
        THE STORM...........................IS GETTING THE INFO.

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  • February 4, 2014 at 09:27
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    Im there for 2 hours on a saturday dont give a f*** if theres a hotel next to the ground s*** gates what are we gonna do

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  • February 4, 2014 at 10:36
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    Don't these gits believe in green spaces? they want to build on every sq inch of land, don't they realise people need space? Would it not be better and healthier to landscape the area into something pleasant wit playgrounds for the children, trees and areas for people to relax walk their dogs, enjoy an ice cream?
    Failing that build a kindergarten , community centre, library , or sports centre. There are plenty of empty office blocks and spaces to convert into homes, I saw them at london Bridge.
    In any case why should unelected developers have all the say and always get there own way, it is the local people who ought to have the final say, not some rich arab shieks with their fingers in the pie.
    Rant over first Millwall have to stay up, look how Chelsea sussed out Man City last night, good tactics which I hope IH will adopt to get us out of the hole we are in at the moment.

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    • February 4, 2014 at 11:31
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      @Peckhamlad: do you think chelsea will lend us their team.
      we can dream

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    • February 4, 2014 at 12:22
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      @Peckhamlad: I am not a political person but most of this building on every square inch of land that they can is driven by the Government, if Councils do not meet the Government targets for new homes then they get penalised financially by loss of subsidies and grants etc.
      It is happening all over Hampshire where I live. Cramming in housing developments where ever they can and trying to find sites for New Towns.
      The Councils that do comply get bigger handouts.
      As the Joni Mitchell song goes," take all the trees and put them in a tree Museum and charge people a dollar and a half to see them"
      We are not just screwed, the whole bloody country is mate.

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      • February 4, 2014 at 15:07
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        @Sealion: I magree and remember Pete Seeger's "Little Boxes Littleboxes all made out of ticky tacky"

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  • February 4, 2014 at 11:25
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    Greed , profits and then displacement! Wot ever happened to drugs sex n rock n roll? F*** everyone , I love millwall and the south bermondsey railway station!

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    • February 4, 2014 at 11:39
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      @grassgrower: and wot about they redevelop the old den brick 4 brick with a historical museum to celebrate the rich history of the club the surroundings and the people , revisit the old pubs , the alley ways etc etc etc. leave it alone and let the normal people live, if ya want ta live like a prince move ta Buckingham palace. Il have 1 more sherry then off to bed.

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  • February 4, 2014 at 11:29
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    after reading all the post,s on this subject,i really can,t believe not one person has blamed Lomas.
    now call me naive but surly some one has to blame him.

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    • February 4, 2014 at 11:40
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      @jim1222: and f***** lomas, he started all this!!!

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    • February 4, 2014 at 15:20
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      @jim1222: F*** him, he tried his best to demolish us and failed.

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    • February 4, 2014 at 19:16
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      @jim1222: b o l l o x Jim, I thought it was all a bad dream.

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    • February 4, 2014 at 20:31
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      @jim1222: I heard Lomas had got a new job at Lewisham council.

      No prior experience but he said all the right stuff during his interview... Well that's the rumour anyway.

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      • February 4, 2014 at 23:52
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        @MFC Lion: he'll be running for mayor neyt .watch out boris

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  • February 4, 2014 at 12:40
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    What we are lacking here is any real information behind the decision making process regarding Lewisham Council and Renewal. The council have a legal duty to be transparent in all their dealings, especially with external bodies such as property developers. It is very much in a Councillor's interest to ensure transparency.

    I have checked the Lewisham Council web site and the latest reference I could find regarding Renewal was 7 March 2012 where the Surrey Canal Triangle Regeneration was discussed the meeting agreed that, in short, that Lewisham Council enter into agreement with Renewal regarding the development. What I don't know if this includes the latest development around the ground. It could be that an umbrella agreement covers the latest development.

    What to do next? I think that all supporters that are Lewisham residents arrange to meet their Councillor each ward within Lewisham has 'surgery' meetings, often on a Saturday morning. We should be seeking additional information regarding the decision making process and inundating the council representatives with information requests surely can't hurt. I am not a resident within the Borough, Just inside Greenwich, but I do know someone who is very senior in another borough that may be able to help understand what we can do. Also, is there anyone out there with legal or property experience, or even knowledge of the workings of a council? If we are to take this forward we will certainly need expert advice.

    There was a good post regarding saving Lewisham A&E. Millwall and residents of Lewisham and surrounding boroughs were extremely helpful and supportive regarding the campaign. Time for some solidarity.

    Remember, a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.

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    • February 4, 2014 at 13:33
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      @sierraleone:

      well said - it is important that we don't feel powerless - the council and Renewal would love us to become apathetic. I know it took them a long time but remember how Charlton got their ground and identity back - they didn't give in

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  • February 4, 2014 at 12:45
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    Me again.

    Just wanted to apologise for the grammatical and syntax errors in the post. I am using a tablet and it has a mind of its own. Drives me mad...

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  • February 4, 2014 at 13:26
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    Apologies if this is totally irrelevant or already common knowledge (as I suspect it is) but this Renewal Group behind the deal is the same Renewal Group founded by David Sullivan. No, not THAT David Sullivan (Sunday Sport, west ham etc etc) but the same David Sullivan that was on our board of directors as part of the tie-in with Lewisham, and former Lewisham Councillor and Mayor of Lewisham. He resigned from the company in 2007. I have to admit that the machinations of business are pretty alien to me (I watch Dragon's Den every now and then and most of that goes right over my head) but whilst this is obviously all above board and 'just how things work' does it not stink just a little bit?

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    • February 4, 2014 at 13:45
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      @mervpayne: thanks for that as I did not know that David Sullivan had gone into property - sounds like Degsy at Liverpool. Funny how quickly some socialists lose their beliefs, if they ever had the of course. Still, feel sure that everything is above board...

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      • February 4, 2014 at 14:06
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        @sierraleone:

        the Labour Party ain't been socialist sine the 1970s and Sullivan never has

        people known his agenda a long time now - scroll down - he was the architect of outsourcing at the council

        http://brockleycentral.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/surrey-canal-regeneration-application.html

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        • February 4, 2014 at 15:43
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          @timchimes: never quoted the Labour Party but there are now a few ex Militant Tendency members doing rather well for themselves. Thanks for the link.

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      • February 4, 2014 at 14:12
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        @sierraleone: I wouldn't bank on it, excuse the pun. Many of these things are done on the golf course, at the Masons lodge, etc. Palms get greased. We would all like to think everything is above board but these things happen. I'm not saying they are all bent often there is a trade off, such as if you let us have that piece of land or approve those plans we will let you have this other piece for a park, playground, community centre or we will plant a few trees etc. Tesco's do it all the time thats how they get a lot of their plans through.

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        • February 4, 2014 at 14:18
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          @Sealion:

          Stephen Norris is involved in this according to the Renewal website

          trust him?

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Norris#Business_career

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          • February 4, 2014 at 14:36
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            @timchimes: I rest my case haha, Interesting link Tim especially the bit about his involvement in the Jarvis case.

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          • February 4, 2014 at 15:47
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            @timchimes: 'Mr Norris Changes Dames' is the go to man on transport issues. Expect a station coming their way soon...

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          • February 4, 2014 at 15:48
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            @timchimes: '
            Mr Norris (Changes Dames) is the go to man on transport issues. Expect a station coming their way soon...

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  • February 4, 2014 at 21:13
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    We have had good times where we are now & excellent times where we have been. No matter where we end up I'll always be with the mighty lions. Ps long live the old Den 🙂 COYL

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  • February 4, 2014 at 22:13
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    This is all a crock. We will never get more than 15k at home unless we get into the Premiership or get Man Utd at home in the 5th round of the cup. In the late 80's we had two seasons in the Premiership and rarely got over those figures. The PRIORITY is to stabalise Millwall in the Championsip. Then and only then, can we talk about plugging up the corners of the stadium or transforming our main entrance into someting to be proud of rather than the cow shed iit now resembles. Have you seen the view from the London Bridge train line of our stands ? They all look like they need a good lick of paint etc. etc.

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  • February 5, 2014 at 08:48
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    Where is everyone???, you all gone to Portugal for a training camp or sumfin??

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  • February 5, 2014 at 09:27
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    WELL I'M HERE grassgrower......................
    BUT, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN...........................IT IS QUIET !
    WHERES OLLIE ? HE USALLY HAS A LITTLE TO SAY, NEVER MIND.
    THE WEEK - END IS GETTING CLOSE SO, SUE, JAMIE AND I WILL BE
    WITH THE OTHER MILLWALL FANS MAKING THE TRIP TO BURNLEY.
    [ THE NEARER IT GETS THE MORE I FEEL A MILLWALL WIN IN COMING ]
    " NO ONE LIKES US , WE DON'T CARE "
    STORMIN' NORMAN......................................LOOKING FOR THE PEOPLE.

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  • February 5, 2014 at 09:36
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    Can always count on the storm man when it's a bit light on for a chat, good luck on the travels, a win would be so good and each week the lads should gel more and more. Ya reckon forde will be back on the white line? Can't wait to get back to the den, can see London bridge station right now. Keep charging storm. Best wishes to the family.

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  • February 5, 2014 at 10:57
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    Not much news coming out of Millwall at moment; what's happening?

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  • February 5, 2014 at 11:05
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    What's the story with all the old pubs around the den, have most of em died a natural death and what's the most famous pub in the area for the millwall faithful.? Seems like there's been lots of changes in the recent past??

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  • February 5, 2014 at 11:33
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    A bloke whispers to a woman in a bar " I'd love to fill you're fanny with rum and then drink it all" the woman runs over to her husband and tells him " aren't you going to kick the s*** out of him she asks" , nah, ya kidding, I'm not gunna fight any f***** that can drink that much rum!!!

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  • February 5, 2014 at 11:48
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    A catholic nun was sitting on a train next to a Muslim man wearing a turban who was eating fresh shrimp. Every time he ate one he,d spit the tail in her direction forcing her to deflect it. He finished the box and threw it out the window. Seeing this, she,d had enuf and pulled the trains emergency cord. The Muslim man looked at her and said,"you'll get fined $250 for doing that you stupid worthless infidel catholic b****". She laughed and said, " when I cry rape and they smell you're fingers u,l get 10years you towel headed camel f*****".

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    • February 5, 2014 at 15:23
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      @grassgrower: ...A UK government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants go to Britain so that they can see their own doctor.

      In the first few days of the Olympics the Romanians
      took gold,
      silver, bronze,
      copper, lead and anything else they could get their
      bloody hands on.

      Sailing results are in, GB took gold, USA took silver
      and Somalia took a
      middle aged couple from Weymouth

      "ITS A BOY" I shouted "A BOY, I DON'T BELIEVE IT, ITS A
      BOY"
      and with tears streaming down my face I swore I'd never
      visit another Thai
      brothel!!!

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  • February 5, 2014 at 13:31
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    I must be missing the point, but if Millwall have a long lease on the car park and the area behind the ground then what is the problem ? Even if Lewisham sell the ground to Renewal, Renewal would still have to honour the lease.

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  • February 5, 2014 at 21:02
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    I have been doing more work on the Lewisham Council minutes. Evidently at their meeting on 2 October 2013 re Surrey Canal Triangle Land Agreement the mayor withdrew from the meeting, having declared an interest.

    Curiouser and curiouser...

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  • February 6, 2014 at 22:00
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    we need to ask questions about the surrey canal sports foundation , clearly some sister organisation of renewal - the renewal director, jordana malik, is a trustee, as is steve bullock - what are these relationships - surely there is influence here -

    http://surreycanalsportsfoundation.org.uk/#

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